ubuntudeveloperportal team mailing list archive

[Shane Fagan <shanepatrickfagan@xxxxxxxxxx>]

msdn is just a learning platform but the IDE that contains the packaging
tools and prefered development environment is the thing that we need I
think. The idea I think mpt was getting across was can we say if you
want to get started in ubuntu install this and it does everything you
will need to do for your development. So at the moment quickly has a
template system an installer ppa..etc that is great but I think the big
idea in the development world is having that in one program which is
typically an IDE. 

So the IDE has all the tools from building a GUI, coding and packaging
it up. There is a few different tools quickly, glade, all the different
libraries and devhelp to see the apis for the libs. 

At the moment we have a pretty simple system once you get used to it and
its really flexible since you aren't tied down to one technology but the
problem is if someone told me "I want to get started in development on
Ubuntu. What do I need to know or install?" id say "it depends on what
languages you know or can you program already?" and then id tell them
about quickly and python and the different tools on offer and what I use
myself. Id probably also have to help them get used to Glade's interface
too and they would be asking questions or getting frustrated for about a
month or two before they got the hang of it or gave up and ive seen it
happen.

Linux is the greatest development platform in the world we support more
languages and have more choice and cool little things here and there to
help along the way but im sticking by my guns and saying we still dont
have a comparable experience for the IDE generation of developers who
like code completion and nice place to make their GUIs and an easy way
to get programs from their computer to users. 

In terms of delivery we do have the app review process (which im a part
of) and I was hoping to talk at the next UDS about getting a simple app
submission api down so we can say push to ppa with quickly and give a
command to submit the app for the review process. 

So the long and short of it is I think we need some singular program to
point new users to and I dont believe quickly is that. We either need to
integrate quickly into eclipse or a different IDE as a plugin or make a
new one which would cost a bit but would be worth it since we can mold
how people use our platform.

--fagan


On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 12:45 -0800, Rick Spencer wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 16:45 +0000, Shane Fagan wrote:
> > Hey Rick and mpt,
> > 
> > Well in terms of developer portal itself we are only really concerned
> > with the right now so its kinda out of scope for this list.
> > 
> > In terms of making the toolkit easier and making everything
> > streamlined for developers I think we need to start some initiative
> > and mailing list (like ayatana) to discuss ways to make development
> > easier at a more broad level than what quickly addresses so IDEs and
> > the like. I dont think we have a list like that and I think it would
> > help the discussion about issues with development as a whole if we had
> > some place to go to talk about stuff.
> Quickly does address what mpt is referring to. For one certain type of
> application, Quickly provides a complete end to end solution. When we
> have tightly bounded problem spaces, we should offer such end to end
> solutions.
> 
> The problem is, comparing android and wp7 to Ubuntu is crazy. Those
> platforms have incredibly limited capability, with only a few kinds of
> applications, and no legacy code.
> 
> What do we do for a developer that wants to write a brand 3D game versus
> one who has a legacy code base for a  large application they want to
> port versus one who wants to create a trivial app to run once to solve a
> simple problem for themselves? There are all valid application
> scenarios, and of course there are many many more. There is no way that
> any one set of tools and APIs can fulfill these use cases. 
> 
> The more valid comparison would be to compare Ubuntu to the Windows
> developer platform. It's interesting to peruse msdn.com to see how on
> just the Windows platform there is so much going there. Look at just the
> New Project dialog in Visual Studio to see how many options Microsoft
> offers for just *new* applications.
> 
> Cheers, Rick
> 
> 
> > 
> > --fagan
> > 
> > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Rick Spencer
> > <rick.spencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 10:23 -0600, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >> Hash: SHA1
> > >>
> > >> Recently I came across a couple of examples of indie developers
> > >> comparing the overall experience of developing for multiple platforms.
> > >>
> > >> Android vs WP7 for developers - a case study
> > >> <http://www.nilzorblog.com/2011/01/android-vs-wp7-for-developers-case.html>
> > >>
> > >>     Covers the respective IDEs, APIs, submission process, report
> > >>     interface, and sales numbers. "I do believe it's slightly more
> > >>     fun to work at the WP7 platform, but the differences are not
> > >>     that big. Not big enough to be decisive alone."
> > >>
> > >> - From iPhone to Windows Phone 7
> > >> <http://carpeaqua.com/2011/01/02/from-iphone-to-windows-phone-7/>
> > >>
> > >>     Emphasizes the importance of having an OS -- and hardware --
> > >>     that the developer wants to use themselves, but also touches on
> > >>     the quality of APIs and IDEs. "Truth be told, I had fun with the
> > >>     Windows Phone SDK. Whereas the Android tools and APIs frustrated
> > >>     me to no end, I had little trouble picking up Windows Phone and
> > >>     translating many of the paradigms and lessons I’ve learned on
> > >>     the Apple platform to Microsoft’s."
> > >>
> > >> While those posts are about mobile platforms, this is the kind of
> > >> experience we need to design in making Ubuntu an attractive target
> > >> platform for developers. The end-to-end experience of being attracted to
> > >> Ubuntu development, installing the SDK, learning the APIs, developing an
> > >> application, submitting it, and tracking revenue and feedback.
> > >
> > > Is there ambiguity about Ubuntu's aspiration to accomplish this?
> > >
> > > Cheers, Rick
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> 
>